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Vacuous Vista versioning

Time: 00:34 EST/05:34 GMT | News Source: Macworld | Posted By: Andre Da Costa

The scene opens at MegaTech Solutions, a local reseller of Microsoft Windows- and Vista-compatible computers and software, including the Windows and Vista OSes. Join us now as we listen in on a conversation between a customer and a MegaTech salesperson…

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Displaying Comments 1 through 35 of 35

This is an archived static copy of ActiveWin.com.

#1 By 13759 (71.196.228.57) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 09:01:14 AM

As a Mac bigot, I must disagree with this well written and 100% accurate article pointing out the differences between common sense marketing and Microsofts continuing saga of foolish greed.

#2 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 09:28:32 AM

Salesman: “Yes, eight—Windows Vista comes in Starter, Home Basic, Home Basic N, Home Premium, Business, Business N, Enterprise, and Ultimate editions.”

Customer: "Ahhhh. You are a moron. Didn't you here me say "Hi. I’m interested in upgrading my home PCs to Windows Vista."

Customer: "Clearly I have no need for the Business Editions. I guess you are a moron Mr. Latch. I think I'll shop elsewhere."

#3 By 32313 (208.131.186.18) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 09:57:16 AM

If you have a PC running Windows 98, its likely possible that it can't even run Windows Vista. I have to agree though, Microsoft needs to cut down the editions, to three, with Windows Home Basic as the new Starter edition for emerging markets. You can then have just Home Premium and Business editions. The Ultimate edition functionality could then be a product by itself users can optionally purchase. (Plus!)

#4 By 8556 (12.207.97.148) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 10:49:54 AM

The article is a pointless waist of data bits. Any Microsoft Partner that knows what they are doing will intertwine questions about the customers existing PC's hardware into the conversation. If not, a potential sale of hardware upgrades has been thrown away for another person or company to pick up.

I had one customer tell me that he didn't want the "eye candy" of Vista in a new PC he ordered. I installed Vista Basic. Basic is close enough to XP, Home or Pro, in function that he has had no problems running it and is happy.

#5 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:14:22 AM

#4, I love your posts and down to earth, practical approach to business!

You point out - again - why our industry bloggers and press miss the point - they don't sell to eat - they don't build to eat - they don't support to eat. They jabber, intentionally confuse and leave a mess for people that crawl around under desks on filthy floors to clean up.

Notice I didn't opine in regard to "journalists." Journalists get to the bottom of stories - they'd ask guys like bobsireno what his experiences were and what he saw, smelled and ingested while on the job [ya'll know how lousy you feel when you've inhaled and ingested a few pounds of fuzz, dust and God only knows what when you take out old systems to put in new ones].

We need more journalists talking to more people in the field and far fewer blogs.

#6 By 8273 (131.107.0.105) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:23:27 PM

Anti-MS people: You don't give us a choice. I don't need all the stuff included with XP, you are forcing me to take Windows Media Player, all this stuff is bloat. This will just drive more people to OSX or Linux.

Microsoft: Fine, we will give you a choice, buy the version of Windows that you want that includes different features, has different hardware requirements, and different pricing. Choose what is best for you.

Anti-MS people: 8 versions, why so many choices. You make it hard to decide what I want, I can't wrap my head around making such a complicated decision. I am switching to Linux and this will just drive more people to OSX or Linux.

Over and over again it is the same thing: MS ships too often, MS ships not often enough. MS doesn't give a choice, MS gives too much choice. MS is trying to destroy OSS by not releasing any source code, MS is trying to destroy OSS by releasing some source code. The Windows UI is complicated and hard to use, let's copy the entire Windows UI right down to using the same bitmaps/Icons. Etc, etc, etc.

Come on MS haters, at least try to decide on a consistent message.

#7 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 03:06:46 PM

#6: The thing you fail to grasp is that anti-MS people aren't the ones complaining about choice personally, they're saying too much chit will confuse the average user. Believe it or not, people can actually have opinions on things that don't really affect or concern them. I think I could probably figure out which Vista edition is *best* for me (hint: none of them), but that doesn't prevent me from commenting on how too many product editions may confuse the average user. Note the distinction. Or not, if you're looking to just ramrod some stupid point home for partisan reasons.

#8 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Wednesday, May 02, 2007 09:16:15 PM

#7, C'mon Latch, please give people some credit.

How many versions of Vista does a consumer see - at retail, or online?

Four, from left to right. Basic on the left, Ultimate on the right and a simple, clear decision reflected in the middle - one is a home user, or a business user.

Basic | Home Premium | Business | Ultimate.

The packaging is clear. The wording is clearer and a table reflects the differences between each version and it this is present on the back of each version. The shelf display, and or end-cap or stack-out features a guide explaining each version, their features as well as what the types of users they are best suited for.

I think some are suggesting that Microsoft's SKU's are all about choices for the sake of choices alone, or they are diven by a desire for more revenue absent any other intent. Clearly, businesses do not need or want to manage all the media features in Home Premium, or Ultimate and as clearly, features in the business edition are not relevant to most home PC users. In each case, it comes down to whether enhanced media features are needed or desired. The lineup suggests "appropriate choices" based upon three simple groups: Home, Work, or Both - while basic offers all XP Home did and much more - both functionally and visually.

At its worst, Vista's version options are no more complex than XP's are - and naive users opposite XP would be as unlikely to understand the differences between XP Home, Pro, Media Center Edition and Tablet PC Edition, as they would be any material differences among Vista versions.

I assess you and others have chosen to intentionally obfuscate what consumers and SMB customers understand about Windows Vista - based upon your own partisan agenda. I support this by offering that users of Microsoft software are unlikely to patrol a *Nix centric site - hosing people down with unhelpful and largely irrelevant commentary.

That said, I do look forward to your posts - they reflect passion and on occasion, conviction.

#9 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 08:23:22 AM

#8: And for my mother, for example, that would be about 4 editions too many. People don't mind choice when they have a clue about what they're choosing. She would be upset if she only had 4 colour swatches when picking carpet, but don't ask her about which software edition she needs because she just doesn't know or want to know. And you can't depend on salesdrones as they may steer the clueless towards Ultimate to inflate their sales totals or whatever.

#10 By 3746 (216.16.225.210) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 09:14:08 AM

#9

So you are blaming Microsoft for the fact that some people don't have a clue when they go out and buy something. If you walk into a store without a clue and some scuzzy salesperson sells you everything and the kitchen sink that is not MS's fault. It is your fault for not being an informed shopper. Like lketchum said MS is damned if they do and damed if they don't. I can't see how you think that having a choice is bad. If MS had one SKU at 200 bucks you would be biatching about how you have to pay for things you don't need or want.

This post was edited by kaikara on Thursday, May 03, 2007 at 09:14.

#11 By 13030 (198.22.121.110) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 09:19:46 AM

There are too many editions when you have to consult a features matrix to know which version you should buy.

#12 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 09:46:56 AM

#9, Yes, Latch, but you're forgetting one very important part of the equation - the ecosystem that Microsoft evolved and supports across its base of partners, ISV's, OEM's and MCP's - even its detractors, like yourself.

Most simply, you're forgetting that your Mom would simply call you and ask what she should do. Microsoft has never stated that it does not depend very much on the ecosystem surrounding its products - quite the contrary, it speaks to the necessity and strenghth of that ecosystem all the time - and like it or no... it does include guy like yourself.

***and if you say that your Mom is running Linux, no one will believe it - not even we Awin'ers would believe you could be that mean.

#13 By 32132 (64.180.219.241) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:23:28 AM

#11 I'm sure the same people you think can't choose between 3 different home versions of Vista have the most awful time shopping in a grocery store or a home entertainment store.

Consumer: Help me! I can't choose. 200 kinds of soup. Who cares if there are labels. Arggh. My brain can't function."

#14 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:43:22 AM

#10: Are you f*cking stupid or something? For the zillionth time, I'm not blaming anyone for anything. TRY TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE:

"TOO MANY PRODUCTS EDITIONS MAY CONFUSE THE AVERAGE USER"

Let me decode it for you since plain English apparently baffles you. What I'm saying is that I have an opinion that too many product editions may confuse the average user. That means the average user may be confused by too many product editions, in my opinion.

Is there some other way for me to say it so you can finally understand????

#12: And why would my mom call me for advice on which Vista edition to buy? Might it be because she's confused by the different choices of product edition?? Perhaps??? Game, set, match.

#15 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:02:54 PM

#13, I'm in that category.

When I came back to the US after many years, I was a mess when it came to shopping for even basic things - still am. I was used to walking to small stores and choosing among a very few product options in each category - like three.

Back in the states, and it's worse now, I was like a stunned mullet <a fish, whacked on the head> in a store. I looked at the endless choices among simple items - soap, toothpaste and other sundries and then enter some odd, stunned state of incapacity.

On the very rare occasion that I do go into a grocery store, or drug store, it is for some very specific item - the finding of which can take some time. Most thankfully, my wife does that for me and is a constant companion and assistant - never more than a few feet away. My best friend past last month, and his wife was like that, too - we each had/have magic desks, tables and drawers, upon which [without asking] whatever we need/ed would appear - seemingly from thin air. At his funeral, one of those who spoke for him recounted that he could perform acts of magic - simply by sitting down at a table - objects would appear and disappear like magic.

Reflecting upon this, I realize that there has to be something to what some are saying about there being too many choices for some users considering Vista - but have to conclude that by design, users are well served by the ecosystem surrounding Vista and while it will never be as effective or intuitive as the great wives many of us have, the guidance and help, I submit, is more than good enough to help people make a decision about which to buy.

For our customers, we decide for them - and they trust us to do what is not only best for them, but what is right - balancing value and features appropriately.

#12, Yes, of course it would be - which supports my assertions regarding the need for and efficacy of, the ecosystem Microsoft built around its products - which also explains why Apple has done less well - all is unto Apple alone and there is no ecosystem. Comparing the two is relevant, but the context is no where near the same and the numbers suggest [strongly] that far more people have benefitted by virtue of Microsoft's model - including all of us within the ecosystem they so often refer to.

#16 By 32132 (142.32.208.234) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:05:34 PM

#14 "And why would my mom call me for advice on which Vista edition to buy?"

Because she was feeling masochistic and wanted to be insulted?

#17 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:17:42 PM

#14, #10: Are you f*cking stupid or something? For the zillionth time, I'm not blaming anyone for anything. TRY TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE:

Latch, that is just "Bad Form" - you can't ignore the evidence, or the validity of what Kaikara said. Microsoft's model is effective - however dependent upon its partners it may be. It is dependent, but that is by design - so which may I ask is best? Given how many millions are employed because of Microsoft's work and model, I strongly agree with Kaikara's conclusions - using my own dependencies, albeit in different areas, as evidence of that.

Microsoft's model works for exactly the reasons other models do not do as well as they do:
1) Apple's all unto Apple model excludes others [ask TL what happened to him and others?]
2) FOSS/OSS provides an inconsistent and horribly confusing alternative against which there is no one to hold to account - and free and open community help ain't gonna roll to Mom's house and un-frac her system.

Oh, and everyone here can see how you broad brush on one hand, and then become uber selective on the other - when it serves your argument - adding personal attacks and insults to that less than effective strategy is just, as I said, "Bad Form" and it deafens people to what might otherwise be good points.

#18 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 12:55:22 PM

#17: I lost it with him when he trotted out the strawman. And you're right. I can't ignore his evidence since I basically agree with him. Caveat Emptor. I don't really understand where you're going with the rest of your post as it didn't make much sense to me in the context of MS offering more choices than the average user may be able to effectively handle. Lastly, I don't mind being lumped in with the rest of the AW broad-brush crew. Because, clearly, the evidence points to the majority of people in this forum doing the same thing when it suits them, yourself included.

#19 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 01:35:18 PM

#18, Okay, let's try it this way - let's say I am a new user and you are going to guide me - and you advocate Linux and I am going to use the system personally [you better say Xandros, and not Ubuntu, or I'm walking - kidding, of course.

Let's do an exercise to help illustrate my point [that Microsoft's ecosystem works better than a single offerning or packaging of any type].

The only thing I do know [in this example] is that a) I want a laptop for personal productivity use and rich multi-media [DVD's, AVI, MPEG, H.264, WMV, FLASH]. Now, help me out and tell me exactly what to buy and what it will and won't do out of the box.

Thanks - this could be helpful. If you do help me, you'll be doing exactly what the ecosystem Microsoft built by design does and obviate, or render irrelevant, my lack of product knowledge and inability to pick a brand of deoderant on my own.

You're right about all of us using a broad brush from time to time - expect in one fundamental way - we more often choose a color that does not, by apparent intent, seek to hurt, or offend one's eyes. I guess it is just a difference in debate styles.

#20 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 03:03:04 PM

#20: I don't know. I don't claim to be able to adequately answer that. Grab a new Dell with Ubuntu (whenever they hatch) and you'll be good for all of that except for the proprietary MS bits. If I understand you, what you're saying is that too much choice for the average user is OK because they will invariably have an informed relative to help them?

#21 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 06:25:09 PM

#20, Oh wait... I read that Ubuntu CAN'T play DVD's or AVI's and worse, due to licensing, no such distro out of the box can play my DVD's - worse yet, if a distro does have commercial DVD playback software, it violates the GPL and the "Spirit" of FOSS - is that true.

I also read that Windows Vista plays DVD's natively, because Microsoft licensed the required decoder and put it in the new OS.

No, Latch, I am saying that the ecosystem around Microsoft software - you know, millions of partners, developers, ISV's, OEM's and MCP's all contribute to the effective and beneficial use of computers - which very often does include relatives.

By as my AMBer guide, please explain why Ubuntu won't be able to play my DVD's?

#22 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 07:59:25 PM

#21 "please explain why Ubuntu won't be able to play my DVD's?"
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats

#23 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 08:28:36 PM

#22, Natively, Chris, natively... remember the rules, it has to stand on its own.

Jim Lynch gave Ubuntu a ripping 1 out of 5 stars - calling it, "Crappy Cow" according to some who shared his review, http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2124099,00.asp

#24 By 20505 (216.102.144.11) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 09:33:13 PM

Gentlemen,

You are all missing the point!

MS makes multiple versions because multiple versions make MS $$$$$.

Don't believe it? Check out their last quarter profit$.

MS is in business to make MONEY. They do this very well. Software is a secondary concern.

Repeat the mantra - prrrrrofit$$$$ - prrrrrofit$$$$ - prrrrrrrofit$$$$.

#25 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:33:29 PM

#23 You didn't ask why it doesn't play DVD's "natively" - in fact the only time you mentioned the term was in regards to Vista, but in any case that page has the information on it as to WHY it doesn't handle them "natively".

And I didn't realise we were playing by any set of predetermined rules - maybe you'd like to make those clear - there's plenty of things which one OS can do out of the box that the other can't. e.g. I can develop applications right out of the box with Ubuntu - can't do that in Vista. So what? The important thing is whether or not the capability is available at all. Playing DVD's in Ubuntu is a matter of several mouse clicks and you know what... I think the guys at Dell will click on those options before selling you the pc so that by the time you get home and plug it in... it was play those DVD's "natively". They might even install OpenOffice and the like on there so that newbies have everything all ready to go... I know it's a little out there, but that's the sort of thing a company like Dell might do, rather than just installing the base image and leaving it as is.

As for Jim's review - he actually gave it 4/10 (2/5) which whilst not spectacular does say something about your quickness in trying to find any evidence at all to quickly dismiss a potential competitor to Microsoft (regardless of whether or not in reality they are a competitor in any sense of the word).

#26 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:39:54 PM

#24 Of course it's all about money, that's all it's ever been about. And honestly I don't care how many versions they come up with because quite honestly, even though it's in tiny little baby steps, they're finally coming closer and closer to the Linux distribution model where you get just a single DVD (or several DVD's in some cases) which has your OS on it. When you install, it asks you what features you'd like (yes, real choice!) and then installs it. When you want to add or remove a feature... you can. Vista isn't there yet and the next version of Windows won't be either but who knows... maybe the version after that will finally do it - they just need to work out how to charge and license certain options so that you're not paying for things you won't use. And you'll be able to remove any component of the system that you choose. Maybe.

#27 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Friday, May 04, 2007 01:30:59 AM

#25, See, I knew you didn't actually read all my posts, or the threads they are joined to.

In an earlier post, I said "out of the box" - not some procedure I'd have to follow.

And the deal is that I had already read the reviews on Ubuntu, downloaded many versions of it as well as Xandros and had tested them. I already knew what wouldn't work and what would - it was an expercise to show Latch that Microsoft's ecosystem really does work and people like all of us, are part of that. I didn't have to go hunt a thing - I already knew it. What? You thought I all work on is Windows? Hardly.

But while we're at it - you should know that not all DVD's will play on Ubuntu - even after one executes several procedures that I submit no new user would feel comfortable running - provided they could find them and Latch sure didn't know which brings up another point... who in the heck am I to all when Ubuntu does not work as I need it to? Dell? No way - as I explained in earlier posts, I have had many experiences with Dell techs and the Linuces - and in each case, we were the guys helping them! It was pathetic and we felt bad for them - not to mention the customer paying thousands each year for support contracts that are nothing but compliance toilet paper.

#28 By 12071 (203.185.215.144) at Friday, May 04, 2007 02:09:43 AM

#27 You did say "out of the box" but I foolishly (I forgot you love to argue semantics!) assumed that when you are buying something from Dell (or any other manufacturer) what THEY give you is what one would term "out of the box". After all, a Dell customer could care less what happened prior to them receiving their desktop (or laptop in your case) and hence the final product is "out of the box". That's why I specifically (and sarcastically) mentioned "and you know what... I think the guys at Dell will click on those options before selling you the pc so that by the time you get home and plug it in... it was play those DVD's "natively"". Now who's not reading whose comments?

As for DVD's not playing on Ubuntu - can you provide some further information on this? - i.e. is this because of some piracy protection that was put in and hence will only work on Windows as it breaks the standard? Or is this a case of a bug in the decoder? Whilst I don't regularly watch DVD's on my pc, I prefer the larger screen of my tv, I haven't had any issues with any DVD's thus far.

As for who to go to in case of problems, I'd start with Google, but in this case given that you purchased it from someone like Dell it'll be up to them to ensure that they train their staff to a level where they can support their products. Whether they can do this or not remains to be seen, as you pointed out in the past they fell far short and I can't say I'm surprised about that. Then again, I've never bought anything from Dell personally so I've never had to deal with their (in)competence.

#29 By 37047 (216.191.227.68) at Friday, May 04, 2007 07:54:56 AM

#27: If you don't like Dell support, and who does, you could purchase your support from Ubuntu itself, and not from Dell.

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/paid

I would believe that Ubuntu's support staff knows the product better than a Dell support person.

As for out fo the box abilities, most Linux distro allow for me to create a document and save it in an ISO standard document format, out of the box. And spreadsheets. And slide presentations. Vista doesn't. In fact, I have to buy Office separately. I still won't get the ability to save to ISO standard formats out of the box. I have to download extra bits separately, and then install them as an add-on component.

#30 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Friday, May 04, 2007 08:17:13 AM

#28, You and I are taking this thread way off topic, and that is fine, it'll be helpful for people who have never used a Linuces much to read of some of it differences and challenges.

However, the discussion centered on Vista versions and how they were presented and understood, or not. I contended that they are clear enough - however dependent upon Microsoft's ecosystem they may be, which is a good "segway" back into our discussion.

I submit that Dell has a lot of work cut out for itself if it is going to support Ubuntu on the desktop and that there is no way such an offering would appeal to anyone other than dedicated Linux enthusiasts. We could go deeper into enhanced mode driver installs for Nvidia and AMD's GPU's or restricted software install procedures - where the phrase, "open a new terminal" would be all too common, but not even Dell is big enough to force resolutions between the FOSS/OSS community and the owners of protected and or restricted software.

DVD's are only one part of it. All the functions people take for granted on a PC for basic support of technologies like FLASH are affected. The issues are not just technical - and that is bad enough - they are legal, political and driven by basic business principles. The reason Ubuntu can't play DVD's out of the box relates to not commercial licensing, but the FOSS/OSS GPL that constrains the relationships that would make it possible. Ubuntu can't play many DVD's because, and I assess owing to the first reason, there is no software that will allow it technically - and one cannot even begin to solve these issues until enhanced mode video drivers are installed, which I point out only to underscore just how much work is left to be done.

Now, if Dell can't well support less diverse configurations and hardware at the server - how in H.E. Double Hocky-Sticks does anyone expect them to support Linux on the desktop?

Can you imagine a non-native English speaker asking Mom, or Aunt May to poke in, sudo nvidia - xconfig -add -argb-glx-visuals into a Terminal? ...and all that is simpler than Microsoft's branding? No it's not and you know that.

So what are people left with? Apple's all unto Apple model? The Linuces and truly endless diversity, complicated by inconsistency and an inherent lack of a responsible party?

Is there any wonder why Microsoft's Windows is so popular? Face it, Windows is a much more complete platform, despite endless diversity and it is supported by an effective ecosystem.

This post was edited by lketchum on Friday, May 04, 2007 at 08:26.

#31 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Friday, May 04, 2007 08:32:53 AM

#27: The F/OSS community is just as vibrant and alive as the Windows community, if not more so, just not as large. I have had problems with various distros overs the years and I've never failed to get a solution just by posting something to a user forum.

#32 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Friday, May 04, 2007 08:51:52 AM

#31, Yeah, but Latch, that is just an extension of the larger community that has always characterized personal computing. There have always ben great people helping others out all over the place. We all participate and benefit from that. That is not the point here and it even underscores what I am saying...

Lay users of Ubuntu are going to call Dell, or there aren't going to be any lay users. If all dell does is sell Ubuntu into the existing Linuces enthusiast community, then I submit they are not going to do well at all - since few, if any of that group are going to pick Ubuntu to begin with.
And if pundits, bloggers and young guys at various mags think they are going to raise their street cred by running Ubuntu over some of the other distros all they're going to do is announce that they don't know diddly and expose themselves to some richly deserved heat from the guys that do.

Dell, selling a commercialized distribution will have to be able to support the product fully - but they're going to have to get around the GPL, the community opposed to any commercial software and all the technical issues affecting the distribution. They can do it, but it is not going to cost either Dell or their customers less money that supporting Windows does.

As I have said throughout, this is nothing more than Dell changing the subject - which is fine - just don't kid yourself into thinking that this is any more than that.

#33 By 23275 (24.179.4.158) at Friday, May 04, 2007 08:58:13 AM

#29, Yes, one could, but how is that less costly than Vista and how is it in any way, less complex than Vista branding? Opposite that, Office/Windows prompts when it requires the ability to read .PDF, for example - same is ture upon set up of Office 2007 and the ability to create .PDF [again, an example]. The point here is that the process on Windows Vista and Office is simpler and requires no direct support.

#34 By 28801 (68.81.50.122) at Friday, May 04, 2007 01:03:36 PM

#25: "there's plenty of things which one OS can do out of the box that the other can't. e.g. I can develop applications right out of the box with Ubuntu - can't do that in Vista. "

Hmmmm, perhaps you forgot a little thing called the .NET framework - you can develop apps with a text editor (albiet painfully)
With a few clicks, you can download free versions of their development applications. Granted this option isn't "baked in", but if someone wants to develop apps then I think they can handle downloading and installing these developer tools, which evil Microsoft provides free of charge.

Additionally, you can develop your own widgets for the destop sidebar with a text editor (also out of the box functionality).

#35 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Friday, May 04, 2007 01:30:10 PM

#32: I'm still not sure how this discussion on Vista editions suddenly turned into Dell offering Ubuntu and how it's a deflection move. A long-term deflection plan apparently, since Dell had been soliciting opinions from it's users on Linux for a while preceding their Linux announcement.

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