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President Obama Appoints Microsoft Executive to Science and Technology Advisory Council

Time: 10:54 EST/15:54 GMT | News Source: Microsoft Press Release | Posted By: Michael Dragone

The White House today announced that it has named Craig Mundie, Microsoft Corp.’s chief research and strategy officer, to the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST), a group of business, academic and nonprofit leaders that will counsel the Obama administration on science and technology policy.

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#1 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Monday, April 27, 2009 03:09:07 PM

I think parkkker's head just exploded.

#2 By 143 (216.205.223.146) at Monday, April 27, 2009 04:05:17 PM

It's all about communism. LOL

#3 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Monday, April 27, 2009 09:25:30 PM

3 thoughts come to mind.

"PCAST was originally established by President George H. W. Bush in 1990 ..."

Another nail in the OSS coffin.

It is too bad they aren't appointed to advise Uuuhhhhbamas Teleprompter. TOTUS is way smarter than POTUS.

#4 By 12071 (203.210.68.145) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 01:53:19 AM

Wow... parkkker was right... he IS evil!!!! hahahaha

#5 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 08:12:57 AM

#3: Another nail in the OSS coffin.

The OSS coffin already has about a million nails in it. What it doesn't have in it is a body, and never will. OSS gets bigger and more widespread every year, despite your wishes to the contrary.

I don't know why Obama picked this MS guy. They could have gotten the same advice by getting a parrot that squawks "Buy Microsoft!".

#6 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 09:41:36 AM

I'm waiting for TOTUS to comment. Uhhhbama has been a little busy terrorizing New Yorkers.

#7 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:41:47 AM

#6: I take immense pleasure from the fact that Obama is going to irritate you for the next 8 years.

Go Obama!

I know all you sour-grapes right-wingers are going to whine endlessly, and it will be music to my ears.

#8 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:51:38 AM

Latch, didn't you know that Obama's policies will bring about a 21st century Nazi party?

#6: At least Obama can convey a coherent thought -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxkpm7bH7j4

#9 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:53:37 AM

Even Arlen Specter is turning Democrat!

#10 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 12:33:42 PM

#8: Not only that but without the GOP to protect America, the King of England could show up at any time to push you guys around! And where will Obama be then, huh? HUH?!?!

#9: The fun comes with guessing how the GOP will spin it:

1. "Good riddance! He wasn't a very good Senator anyway"
2. "Bought!! He was bribed by Obama!"
3. "He's an adrift flip-flopper. He's just following the political wind."
4. "He's a disloyal, dirty, pinko, commie!!"
5. All of the above

#11 By 23275 (172.16.10.31) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 01:45:14 PM

To Senator Specter, principles meant less than power. He noted that those identifying themselves as Republicans was at a very low 21% and that 200,000 people had re-registered as Democrats.

Senator Specter recognized that as a Republican, he would not be re-elected and he set aside any Republican principles he may have agreed with in order to have a better chance at re-election and retaining his seat in the Senate.

#12 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 01:47:57 PM

#7 I take immense pleasure from knowing I was right ... Uhhhbama is the dumbest person ever elected to the Presidency. I am quite sad he plans to destroy the country.

#8 Not without a Teleprompter. And even then he is an idiot.

#9 Corrupt politicians go where the bribes are.

#10 5 is the correct answer.

#13 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 02:45:00 PM

LOLZ, here comes the Silly Squad, right on cue...

#14 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 03:33:03 PM

"Let's be honest -- Sen. Specter didn't leave the GOP based on principles of any kind," said Republican National Committee Chairman Michael Steele. "He left to further his personal political interests because he knew that he was going to lose a Republican primary due to his left-wing voting record.

"Republicans look forward to beating Sen. Specter in 2010, assuming the Democrats don't do it first," Steele said.

This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 at 15:33.

#15 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 03:33:13 PM

It is interesting to remember Phill Gramm. When he switched from a Democrat to a Republican, he resigned his seat forcing a special election. He then ran as as Republican.

That was ethical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm#United_States_House_of_Representatives

This post was edited by NotParkerToo on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 at 15:33.

#16 By 16797 (65.93.148.218) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 04:04:52 PM

#12
Bush nominated his cleaning lady to the Supreme Court. Palin thought Africa is a country. Bush tried to outsource port security to a company from.. Saudi Arabia. Do you remember CIA agent Valerie Plame? Alberto Gonzales? New Orleans?

The list goes on and on and on.. Yet you call Obama stupid?

No wonder people are leaving GOP. Really.

"Obama's party now controls 59 seats in the upper chamber. When Al Franken of Minnesota is finally seated, Democrats will have 60, the number needed to squash a filibuster and move to a final vote."

#17 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 04:41:20 PM

"Yet you call Obama stupid?"

Yes. Despite 8 years of accumulated anecdotal stupidity accumulated by Bush (much of it wrong) Obama still comes across as 10x stupider!

Amazing isn't it?

Austrian is a language. http://www.formulaforalife.com/2009/04/obama-ism-of-day.html

Etc: http://hotair.com/?s=obamateurism

#18 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 05:00:53 PM

100 Days, 100 Mistakes.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04252009/postopinion/opedcolumnists/100_days__100_mistakes_166177.htm

#19 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 07:03:01 PM

#18: People like you have driven the GOP to point of extinction.

Now THAT is a Magic Bullet!

#20 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 07:08:08 PM

#19 I think Uhhbamas path will lead to a military coup as more people realize he plans to to ruin the economy and surrender to all of our enemies. That would be sad. But I believe it is inevitable.

#21 By 16797 (65.93.26.6) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 07:43:03 PM

#17 "Yes. Despite 8 years of accumulated anecdotal stupidity accumulated by Bush (much of it wrong) Obama still comes across as 10x stupider! Amazing isn't it? "

Outing a CIA agent *is* a fucking treason, not "Austrian is a language" type of ignorance. Don't even try to compare those, etc.

GOP is completely out of touch with reality. Not too many will follow Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Cheney and others like them. America is smarter than that and clearly voted so.. Majority doesn't even take (or even listen to) your, republican, crap seriously any longer.

The Times They Are a-Changin'

This post was edited by gonzo on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 at 20:04.

#22 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 09:28:32 PM

Plame was outed by her husband and she was not an undercover CIA agent. She drove thru the front gates when she went to work.

"According to Gallup's April survey, Americans have a lower approval of Mr. Obama at this point than all but one president since Gallup began tracking this in 1969. The only new president less popular was Bill Clinton, who got off to a notoriously bad start after trying to force homosexuals on the military and a federal raid in Waco, Texas, that killed 86. Mr. Obama's current approval rating of 56 percent is only one tick higher than the 55-percent approval Mr. Clinton had during those crises.

As the attached chart shows, five presidents rated higher than Mr. Obama after 100 days in office. Ronald Reagan topped the charts in April 1981 with 67 percent approval. Following the Gipper, in order of popularity, were: Jimmy Carter with 63 percent in 1977; George W. Bush with 62 percent in 2001; Richard Nixon with 61 percent in 1969; and George H.W. Bush with 58 percent in 1989. "

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/apr/28/baracks-in-the-basement/

As for Rush and Fox .... record ratings and the NYT is going bankrupt.

#23 By 16797 (65.93.26.6) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 09:47:16 PM

"Plame was outed by her husband and she was not an undercover CIA agent. She drove thru the front gates when she went to work. "

Haha. Oh really? Is that why Libby was sent to jail?

"WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, was convicted Tuesday of lying and obstructing a leak investigation that reached into the highest levels of the Bush administration.

Libby was convicted of one count of obstruction, two counts of perjury and one count of lying to the FBI about how he learned Plame’s identity and whom he told. Prosecutors said he learned about Plame from Cheney and others, discussed her name with reporters and, fearing prosecution, made up a story to make those discussions seem innocuous."

"As for Rush and Fox .... record ratings and the NYT is going bankrupt."

Indeed, many (dems included) watch Fox, especially O'Reilly Factor, for example - I am not disputing their ratings. But it is votes on the election day that count, not TV ratings. Does the fact that Obama won doesn't tell that already?

"The latest Washington Post-ABC News poll shows the depth of the party's problems. Just 21 percent of those surveyed identified themselves as Republicans. That's the lowest since the fall of 1983, when just 19 percent identified themselves as Republicans. Party identification does fluctuate with events. But as a snapshot indicator, the latest figures highlight the impact of Obama's opening months on the Republican Party. From a high-water mark of 35 percent in the fall of 2003, Republicans have slid steadily to their present state of affairs. It's just not as cool to be a Republican as it once was."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2009/04/28/specters_departure_a_wake_up_c.html?hpid=topnews

#24 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:06:09 PM

Gonz, clipping directly from Wikipedia is unwise.

Richard L. Armitage provided the information about Ms. Plame's employer to Robert Novak, and contrary to what you have obviously been led to believe, Armitage was no real friend to the Bush administration and in fact, subverted all efforts to build a case for war with Iraq.

However... not even Armitage was the real source for Ms. Plame's 'outing' that credit goes to her own husband. Nevertheless, it now appears that the person most responsible for the end of Ms. Plame's CIA career is Mr. Wilson. Mr. Wilson chose to go public with an explosive charge, claiming -- falsely, as it turned out -- that he had debunked reports of Iraqi uranium-shopping in Niger and that his report had circulated to senior administration officials. He ought to have expected that both those officials and journalists such as Mr. Novak would ask why a retired ambassador would have been sent on such a mission and that the answer would point to his wife. He diverted responsibility from himself and his false charges by claiming that President Bush's closest aides had engaged in an illegal conspiracy. It's unfortunate that so many people took him seriously.

Please do read: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/31/AR2006083101460_pf.html

#25 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 10:09:51 PM

and Gonz.... the natural uranium that Iraq 'DIDN'T" have?

Well... it did... 550 tons of the stuff. all now in Canada.

The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program — a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium — reached this Canadian port Saturday, completing a secret U.S. operation that included an airlift from Baghdad and a voyage across two oceans.

The removal of about 550 tons of “yellowcake” — the seed material for high-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward closing the books on Hussein’s nuclear legacy The LA Times reported, http://www.bloggernews.net/116579

#26 By 16797 (65.93.26.6) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:27:08 PM

#24 Wikipedia? It was from MSNBC. Here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17479718/

Richard L. Armitage provided the information about Ms. Plame's employer to Robert Novak

Yes, he did, but that does not mean that Libby was not providing that same information to others (from NBC if I remember correctly). He did. And then he lied about how he found out about Valerie, etc, etc.

And finally he was found guilty.

Yes, if you asked me, I agree --- others should have been prosecuted too.

"Wilson and Plame have sued Libby and Cheney, as well as White House advisor Rove and former State Department official Richard Armitage, in federal court."

#27 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Tuesday, April 28, 2009 11:28:46 PM

"Does the fact that Obama won doesn't tell that already"

Jimmy Carter won. He was the worst president of the 20th Century. Obama will be remembered as being the worst President ever.

Wilson outed his own wife. Libby got caught up in try to debunk Wilson's outrageous lies (which he didn't start telling until he joined Kerry's campaign).

After finding out that Clinton appointees in the DOJ fabricated the case against Ted Stevens to tip the 60 Senator mark, it doesn't surprise me the fabricated case against Libby got him convicted. Basically a CIA faction wanted to punish Bush and made a lot of crap up and Libby was the fall guy.

"When asked how he knew about Plame, Armitage said he knew because Joe Wilson was "calling everybody" and telling them. And by "everybody" Mr. Armitage certainly meant reporters.

With that in mind it is an easy step to suppose that it was Mr. Joseph C. Wilson IV himself who first "outed" his wife as a CIA officer.

And, as Mr. Armitage also suggested, Wilson did so because he didn’t want to be dismissed as some "low-level guy." He wanted to buttress his wildly outrageous (and we now know fallacious) claims against a then popular President at the height of a then popular war.

And what better way to do so than to produce the person who sent him on his mission, and who witnessed the events unfold — his own wife, who just happened to be an expert on weapons of mass destruction."

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/when-and-why-joseph-c-wilson-iv-outed-valerie-plame

#28 By 16797 (65.93.26.6) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:11:30 AM

#27 Funny that they found innocent man --- guilty? :))

Bush himself refused to pardon Libby (completely).

#29 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 06:13:17 AM

Gonzo,

Does motive matter? Put yourself in Mr. Libby's shoes. You find out that what are supposed to be objective professionals are functioning as political operatives and those appointed by the democrats during a period when they were emasculating the very military and intelligence organizations that were designed to prevent a 9/11 and broader wars in the first place... and yes, I am talking about Clinton era employees that infested the agencies and senior levels throughout the DoD. I saw the garbage first hand.

But back up further, the country is at war and the stench of death and burnt plastic is still fresh in your nostrils and you're working like a mad dog to prevent another attack and gosh forbid, win the war... you hear of some insanity as being initiated by Joe Wilcox and a gaggle of half-witted journalists that have read one too many conspiracy theories... you try to find out what the heck is going on and why supposedly objective intelligence and defense professionals are undermining foreign and war fighting policy - which by the way, fall clearly under article II of the constitution. Wilcox used his wife, compromised her and threw her out there to be used by all comers. So Libby, working to first understand and then stop the subversion of constitutionally valid foreign policy initiatives, gets caught up in faux outrage and lies as perpetrated by a compliant press and inquisitors in the DoJ and is hammered - not for outing Plame, but for obstruction, which technically is a crime he did commit. Bush did not pardon him at all, because he reasoned that Libby was and should have remained above all that and known better. Bush commuted Libby’s sentence as being excessive.

The bottom line in all of this is that for eight years, very unprofessional ‘professionals’ that should never have been hired into, or appointed to positions at the DoJ, DoD and across the alphabet agencies; those hired during the Clinton administration, did everything they could to undermine the Bush administration and US foreign policy. They and a more than compliant populist media abandoned the truth, reason and their oaths and very clearly have convinced good people like yourself that they are right, or that their actions were justified.

#30 By 92283 (70.67.3.196) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 08:52:37 AM

#28 Ted Stevens lost his Alaskan Senate seat because of a DOJ fabricated case against him.

"A federal judge Tuesday set aside a jury's guilty verdict and the indictment against former U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens, then announced that he was naming a special prosecutor to investigate whether government attorneys had broken the law by failing to ensure that the Alaska Republican got a fair trial.

''In 25 years on the bench, I've never seen anything approaching the mishandling and misconduct that I've seen in this case,'' U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan said in dismissing the case and voiding the verdict."

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation/story/989564.html

#31 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:32:11 AM

#29, 30: Go Obama! Change we can believe in! 8 more years! A chicken in every pot! Mom & Apple Pie!

#32 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:54:22 AM

31, my... what a thoughtful post.

The very troubling, but predictable thing about populism and populists is that when presented with facts and an actual record, their diatribes and baseless commentary fall apart nearly as quickly as Herr Obama's oratory when the teleprompter fails. (I do recall how deftly President Clinton handled dealing with the wrong speech being loaded to the prompter during a state of the union address - he nailed it nearly word for word).

Perhaps this is what is behind the flop back from a flip opposite Herr Obama's enhanced interrogation techniques outages... and where o where is the faux outrage over that political outing in the name of morality? Where's Gonz on that one? Silent - as the FACTS are clear - President Bush sought to have the policy, dating from 1994, examined and presented to the judiciaries at both the senate and the house, AFTER having received written reviews from administration and DoJ lawyers!!! BUT, the democrat leaders in the house and senate that were fully briefed and provided in-person, physical demonstrations and testimony from soldiers who had been exposed to the methods in training, would be exposed as liars and fakes.

I am with the former Vice President on this. If you're going to out some of it, out all of it - out the judiciary members, expose fully what we learned and expose the history - all the way back to the Clinton era executive order that first authorized it. While you are at it, out the nations that on one day and one hand, were all for such methods, yet on the next, dead against it. Indeed, it is time to simply abandon all old ways and expose all of these idiots to the truth. You'll find in the stunning conclusion a President Bush that, oh my... was THE ONE most concerned about human rights and the rule of law - saying... "If we're going to do this, it must be the consensus that it is legal, rare and of proven benefit to the people." Three, count em, (3) ruthless murderers out of thousands, were water boarded. Three. That qualifies as rare and stands as an example of how empty populist arguments actually are.

Latch is no more prepared to debate these issues than he is opposite Windows Vista, or browser security. The fact is, populists do not care what the truth is; what the facts are - that is and has been my point. They simply declare what is and happily march their next victims off to be executed summarily - be it logically, politically and worst of all, physically.

#33 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:00:15 PM

#30: Was that Fox News or Fox Mulder?

#34 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:12:40 PM

#32 "If we're going to do this, it must be the consensus that it is legal, rare and of proven benefit to the people."

Well, was there indeed a consensus that it was legal and of proven benefit?

#35 By 92283 (142.25.203.200) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:44:29 PM

#33 What a deep rebuttal to the fact that the DOJ railroaded a Republican Senator out of his seat.

"Well, was there indeed a consensus that it was legal and of proven benefit? "

The proven benefit was discovered after the lawyers said it was legal AND Nancy Pelosi (as well as others overseeing the intel community) signed off on it.

It stopped a 9/11 type attack planned for L.A.

#36 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:59:20 PM

#32: I am with the former Vice President on this.

When I think of Darth Cheney, I think of this article:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/28/cafferty.cheney/index.html

"If we're going to do this, it must be the consensus that it is legal, rare and of proven benefit to the people."

And they narrowed the definition of torture so that what they did, which was obviously torture to everyone else, was "legal". Of course, it's not hard to stay legal when you can change the rules of the game at your whim. The fact that they did it to only three guys is irrelevant; it's like being a little bit pregnant. You either torture or you don't. You stand by your principles, and the rule of law, or you don't. It has been proven that torture isn't effective and that the subject will generally tell you what you want to hear. The claims of useful intel being derived from torture are impossible to substantiate, and they're not exactly in a position of moral trust to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I have no interest in debating you on this as you are the one person on this forum that is completely closed-minded (I suspect that parkkker plays the fool for kicks while you really believe what you say.) You have your "facts" and nothing will sway you from your views. I don't pretend to think that I can change your mind, so the next best thing is to tweak you for the next 8 years. 8 MORE YEARS!!!!

#37 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:02:23 PM

#35: Oh please. Senator Tubes was as dirty as they come. He got screwed out of a fair trial, but a finding of "Not Guilty" doesn't mean he was innocent. He would have been convicted if not for the DoJ shenanigans. I wouldn't be surprised if a deal was cooked up where he got off in exchange for his senate seat.

#38 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:18:42 PM

#34, Yes, there was universal consensus and the administration placed extremely strict controls on how and when water boarding could and would be used.

Select US soldiers and air crew have been exposed to this method for nearly two decades.

The judiciaries endorsed the measures and approved of the procedures for both handling such interrogations and the information coming from them. Latch is right, torture does not work and that is precisely why it is not used. Making someone uncomfortable is not torture - no more than asking them questions over and over when they are tired and do remember, the subjects of such questioning are NOT/NOT protected by the Geneva Conventions. They are non-uniformed enemy combatants. They are not even afforded the protections extended to irregulars. They are terrorists as the world defines them. They seek to terrorize people by intentionally killing the innocent. They deserve what they get. Death. and Military justice.

I want all of this to come out. All of it. It has to now. I want the speaker of the house sworn and put on the stand right alongside the former President. I want the growing legions of populists to see and hear with their own eyes and ears what the truth is. I believe it is our only chance to save our Republic. With all respect, non-US persons need to respectful of our processes here. We are not Canada; we are not France - neither of them carry the expectations we do. I want Obama on the stand, too – to be made to answer the specific questions about his own knowledge and actions before the campaign, during the campaign and certainly after it. I am certain you would be stunned at what he really believes and wants.

#39 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:25:07 PM

#35 Well, I can't tell anything really, because I really was not following that case. So, it was a joke, nothing more, I thought that it was obvious. It is just funny that you're talking about something like that, when at the same time Bush went to fucking *war* based on lies.

As for the proven benefit --- I am not so sure about it. Practically everyone is saying that torture does not provide reliable information.

The thing is --- how do you justify waterboarding one person 185 times within 30 days?

What, you didn't get reliable information first 184 times, but hey this time, 185th, you're going to get solid facts. Yeah, because 184 was not enough to break him.. And what, you expect that information to be reliable? I wouldn't. Would you?

What they say these days is that, for example, Isreal, that is faced with terrorism on a daily basis, stopped using torture years ago. Because it didn't work. They say you simply can't get reliable information that way.

It stopped a 9/11 type attack planned for L.A.

Actually..

"WASHINGTON — The CIA inspector general in 2004 found that there was no conclusive proof that waterboarding or other harsh interrogation techniques helped the Bush administration thwart any "specific imminent attacks," according to recently declassified Justice Department memos."
...etc, etc.

#40 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:30:11 PM

#38 "Making someone uncomfortable is not torture..."

US did execute Japanese for waterboarding American POWs.

#41 By 92283 (142.32.208.233) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:32:21 PM

#39 It was 185 dribbles of water over 5 sessions.

http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2009/04/why-are-they-telling-me-what-i-was-telling-you-fox-news-edition.html

As for the effectiveness, Dick Cheney wants the memos that show it worked to be released. Obama refuses.

"One of the things that I find a little bit disturbing about this recent disclosure is they put out the legal memos, the memos that the CIA got from the Office of Legal Counsel, but they didn't put out the memos that showed the success of the effort," Cheney said.

Cheney said he's asked that the documents be declassified because he has remained silent on the confidential information, but he knows how successful the interrogation process was and wants the rest of the country to understand.

"I haven't talked about it, but I know specifically of reports that I read, that I saw, that lay out what we learned through the interrogation process and what the consequences were for the country," Cheney said. "I've now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/20/cheney-calls-release-memos-showing-results-interrogation-efforts-1862515294/

#42 By 92283 (142.32.208.233) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:34:20 PM

#40 But that wasn't their only crime. It was just one on a long list of warcrimes.

And ... no one tried and executed Harry Truman for nuking Hiroshima/Nagasaki because it was deemed to have saved millions of lives.

I concur. You probably don't.

#43 By 223573 (65.90.202.10) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 01:58:30 PM

"It was 185 dribbles of water over 5 sessions. "

The water was applied with an eye dropper and the subject enjoyed the procedure so much that he happily volunteered information that led to the disruption of numerous terror plots within the U.S. border.

#44 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 02:20:28 PM

#42 "And ... no one tried and executed Harry Truman for nuking Hiroshima/Nagasaki because it was deemed to have saved millions of lives. "

Because it did save millions of lives.

#43 Would that include the plot to outsource port security to Saudi Arabia :)))

#45 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 02:38:58 PM

Gonzo, US "UNIFORMED" combatants WERE PROTECTED under the articles of the Geneva Convention.

The Imperial Japan did far more than water board those they held as captives. There is no equivalency - moral or otherwise between Imperial Japan and the United States. If you think there is, then there is no basis for further discussion.

Even novice students of history understand the implications of the fall 45 and spring 46 operations against the northern and southern islands of Imperial Japan. Operations Coronet and Olympic would have resulted in horrific losses to the Japanese and allies. "The Bomb" was the least horrific alternative and for the dang record, Hiroshima was the HQ of the Imperial Japanese Army assigned to organize and defend the southern isles. It was a legitmate target and made so by the Japanese - whom we rebuilt and gave back their country based upon democratic principles and the rule of law as supported by a constitution we helped them draft. We've guranteed and protected that democracy ever since. Truman said something to the effect that: "we have no designs of any kind; not one except peace for the world" he meant it and our actions since have provided the only measure one need apply ooposite our sincerity.

Read: Operation Downfall - two parts Coronet (northern) Olypmpic (Southern) http://operationolympic.com Ya'll need to get out more. Walk the ground and read and study the record. Revisionist and populist nonsense has no more effective role in a healthy society than does wishful thinking that Microsoft software isn't a good solution for a very large number of businesses and end users. and by the way... the freaking terrorists do not care if you want to be liked, okay.. they want to convert you to Islam, or kill you! Get it?

#46 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 02:47:46 PM

Dubai, Gonzo, Dubai... you know... that secular, non sectarian state that is imperfect, but working its backside off to join the world in the 21st century.

Port Security - for Merchant vessels carrying a wide variety of international flags? That issue?

You mean a meaningful reward to a nation and its leaders and people - for doing exactly what we hope for all nations in that region - to turn away from violence and a dependence on oil and join the international community? That nation?

That populists cheated and drove into the ground. YOU CANNOT HAVE THINGS BOTH WAYS.

You just spit - again - in the faces of perhaps the only and few people in that region that have a hope of guiding their people out of the seventh century. Dubai needed the revenue and with the help, real assistance and cooperation of the United States Navy and true and deep respect, we could have made a big difference... but again, Populist lunacy tanked a great initiative. Internationally, populists said, ney... SCREAMED: "We don't trust you!" and you wonder why a proud people hate the west and take it out most on its chief advocate and example. For the love of God and peace, allow reason to trump populist BS. We needed a pragmatist (again) instead we got Obama. Ya'll keep this up and I'll have to live another 50 years rather than passing on and getting some rest.

#47 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 02:56:24 PM

#45 Lloyd, not sure what are you talking about related to nuking of Japan. I am not against what Truman did. I said "[no one tried and executed Harry Truman for nuking..] because it DID save millions of lives."

We agree.

#48 By 28801 (65.90.202.10) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 03:12:03 PM

#46: The Dubai Port security was a stupid thing to do so soon after the attacks. Eight years later, we are still squeamish over low flying planes.

And can you please stop with the "populist" nonsense??? Most people who voted for Obama only want government where it makes sense.

#49 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 03:19:48 PM

Thanks, Gonzo.

Forgive an old man his own memories. You are a gentleman.

Lloyd

Thanks, Gonzo.

Forgive an old man his own memories. You are a gentleman.

Lloyd

It is vital to me that young people understand that discussion and debate is critical to our survival and growth. I respect that so much that, speaking with my own dollars and time, I support sites fully - such as this one. It is also vitally important that people understand that the point, my point is not to win arguments, but to ensure that facts, available as they may be, be provided a voice. We may conclude differently and disagree entirely, but it must be based upon solid information. No one understands as much about our imperfections as old people do. We want things to be better for our kids and their contemporaries. You all have to understand how dangerous populism is. I have seen and smelled what it does to even the greatest of people. You cannot imagine how awful it is.

#50 By 23275 (24.196.4.141) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 03:35:00 PM

#48, No Rxcall, I won't.

Too many people said nothing last time and the world burned.

Most Germans voted for the Nazis for similar reasons. Governments are made up of human beings and when they have too much power it corrupts them. History is littered with too many examples for me to not warm people about populism and what it 'can' result in.

I am not insisting that it will, but I do believe that if not checked, it surely can be very dangerous. I am certainly not saying that the present US administration is any direct equivalent to Nazi Germany, but it does share very similar populist ideals and economic policies.

#51 By 16797 (65.93.150.89) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 04:02:37 PM

#46 "Dubai needed the revenue and with the help, real assistance and cooperation of the United States Navy and true and deep respect, we could have made a big difference...

Wow. Dubai needed the revenue. Dubai???!!!

I'll show you Dubai all over... USA.

P.S.
OK, so it was Dubai, not S. Arabia. My bad.

This post was edited by gonzo on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 at 16:03.

#52 By 92283 (142.32.208.233) at Wednesday, April 29, 2009 04:04:26 PM

"For just the second time in more than five years of daily or weekly tracking, Republicans now lead Democrats in the latest edition of the Generic Congressional Ballot.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 41% would vote for their district’s Republican candidate while 38% would choose the Democrat. Thirty-one percent (31%) of conservative Democrats said they would vote for their district’s Republican candidate. "

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/congressional_ballot/generic_congressional_ballot

#53 By 15406 (216.191.227.68) at Thursday, April 30, 2009 03:46:58 PM

An interesting post:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/30/gross.torture.law/index.html

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