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Network Software

Microsoft Disowns "EC-Designed" Windows

Time: 01:30 EST/06:30 GMT | News Source: Linux World | Posted By: Todd Richardson

"It ain't Windows and nothing will make it Windows," Redmond says. If Microsoft is forced to put out a version of Windows that is shorn of the Windows Media Player, Microsoft won't recognize it as Windows. It'll be a bastard program fathered by the European Commission, not by Microsoft, according to the company's general counsel Brad Smith.

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#1 By monkeydog (825 Posts) at 3/28/2004 6:56:26 AM

I agree - F the EU - bunch of commie bastards...

#2 By RedHook (878 Posts) at 3/28/2004 8:37:25 AM

By then Monti, who Microsoft supporters say is riding a huge ego wave, will be out of the picture. His five-year term is up in October and new countries will be admitted to the EU by then. Heck, there'll be plenty of time. Smith figures the appeals process could take until 2009.

I wouldn't expect anything less.

#3 By RoguePenguin (71 Posts) at 3/28/2004 10:00:15 AM

Why doesn't the EU just manually remove wmp ?

#4 By TDavid (4 Posts) at 3/28/2004 10:01:19 AM

Every time you install AOL it seems to want to install that blasted Real player, including desktop icons that you don't have the option of not including on install, as well as a toolbar button, so what's the difference here really? A lot of software has "automatic updates" included by default and passed off a convenience to consumers. Unless there is clearly a good reason for this "service" it just borders on virtual breaking and entering.

#5 By Byron_Hinson[AW] (2030 Posts) at 3/28/2004 12:12:10 PM

#4 - well Real software isn't created by AOL for a start - it's made by a different company.

#6 By sodablue (5246 Posts) at 3/28/2004 2:49:28 PM

Byron - Shouldn't people have a choice?

That's the thing which most irritiates me, and actually makes this lawsuit the all more farsical.

You have to have Windows Media Player, Real Player and Quicktime all installed at the same time on a computer. Otherwise you won't be able to se all the content out there.

These video formats should be standardized, and I should be able to choose to have only one player on my machine.

#7 By Byron_Hinson[AW] (2030 Posts) at 3/28/2004 4:16:00 PM

Yes people should have the choice, thats what the whole EU thing was for - giving more choice in the media market instead of having the whole IE thing all over again.

#8 By romarionaldo (1 Posts) at 3/28/2004 4:22:42 PM

Actually, you don't need Quicktime to view files in Quicktime format. You can download Quicktime Alternative, a codec for WMP. It's available on various sites. I have never used RealPlayer Alternative, but it's also out there.

#9 By Chadder007 (51 Posts) at 3/28/2004 4:49:55 PM

I agree with them.... EU sucks.
I wish Microsoft would threaten to just pull out all of their software and support out of Europe. ...then again doing so would probably devistate europe by having to switch over to Linux. hehe

#10 By Saladdaze (2 Posts) at 3/28/2004 5:07:01 PM

RE: #9 - bring it on - at least with Linux you have a choice. You aren't forced down a proprietary, badly written, security-ignorant lockin.

This tarring the whole of EU with the ever-intellectual "they're all commie bastards" is as offensive as calling all Americans overweight retards who can't point to their own country on a map... It solves nothing and just perpetuates inaccurate and irrelevant stereotypes.

What Microsoft have done is against EU rules - if they want to play in Europe, they have to abide by EU rules as do all companies.

Microsoft is not a special case, it's just another company - just because it's a US one doesn't mean it should be exempt from EU law.

Would you expect an EU company to be exempt from US law?

This post was edited by Saladdaze on Sunday, March 28, 2004 at 17:08.

#11 By Parkker (1408 Posts) at 3/28/2004 6:24:31 PM

Three anti-competition commission decisions have been overturned by the courts in Europe in the last two years. And they have been very critical of the commision.

Try to remember the anti-competition commission is not a court, and did not hold a trial in public.

"giving more choice in the media market instead of having the whole IE thing all over again. "

The whole IE thing ... which is where Netscape gave aways it browser for free and when Microsoft did the same lost because Netscape couldn't compete on a level playing field.

This is the same thing. Real gave away its player for free, Microsoft gradually improved its player, which it also gave away for free, until it had a better product. Now Real is crying that its unfair for Microsoft to give away free media players - because only Microsofts competitors are supposed to give away its products.

This star chamber decision will be overturned when it gets in front of a real court.

#12 By sodablue (5246 Posts) at 3/28/2004 6:44:01 PM

Byron - "Yes people should have the choice, thats what the whole EU thing was for - giving more choice in the media market instead of having the whole IE thing all over again. "

But I had a choice, and I choose to use IE. As did everybody else in the world.

Choice is great, but if all the choices are crap, people will be driven towards the good choice.

Real has started to realize this, their latest version no longer forces spyware down your throat. Maybe if they'd realized this before, they wouldn't have lost so much marketshare.

Saladaze - "bring it on - at least with Linux you have a choice. You aren't forced down a proprietary, badly written, security-ignorant lockin. "

No, you have a choice of using a badly written, security ignorant lockin, or looking at a box of microchips that does nothing.

#13 By Mr. Dee (3459 Posts) at 3/28/2004 7:32:13 PM

This is so ridiculous, whats a little media player gonna do? Its technically already disabled with Set Program Access Defaults, PC manufacturers and users already have the option of disabling media player. So why is Monti acting like such a hemroid?

I'm going to do some voodoo for Microsoft and make sure they win on this one. It worked the last time with Anti-Trust in US.

#14 By Saladdaze (2 Posts) at 3/28/2004 7:49:00 PM

Re: #12

So you're saying it's Microsoft or nothing? That's interesting - if not exactly open-minded.

How can there be a good choice if all the choices are crap? And for your information, not everyone in the world chose IE. It's banned in my company due to it's security flaws.

There are other operating systems - Linux, NetBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris to name but a few - that run on PC hardware. Open your mind!

Re: #13

WMP is not JUST a media player - it's spyware too. In classic Microsoft style, it sends identifiable information back to microsoft despite stating it doesn't.

Microsoft is losing it's footing throughout Europe thankfully - CTOs are now seeing that it has no place in the datacentre. The support provided by Microsoft is woeful at best and dangerously wrong in a lot of cases.

This simple media player opens up a whole heap of security issues - just count the number of hotfixes that apply to WMP.

#15 By Mr. Dee (3459 Posts) at 3/28/2004 9:06:07 PM

Thats ridiculous #14, Media Player is in no way spyware, you are referring to the information it ask for after installation, such as searching for music files on you hard drive and looking up information about them on the internet.

Its is up to the user whether they want to do this, during the Media Player 9 setup wizard its not even checked by default to collect information about your music files or make them protected, its up to you user.

If you want to know what spyware is, try Real ONE Player.

#16 By oldog (578 Posts) at 3/28/2004 9:33:29 PM

gentlemen � i don�t give a hoot about a specific product.

give me innovation or give me death (figuratively speaking of course).

if the EU decision increases innovation then it is good. if it stifles innovation then it is garbage and my MS stock price be dammed.

#17 By sodablue (5246 Posts) at 3/28/2004 9:34:40 PM

Saladdaze - No, I'm saying Linux is a piece of crap.

"It's banned in my company due to it's security flaws. "

Which browser do you use which has absolutely no security flaws?

"Open your mind!"

I've used all those. I have an open mind. It's just that mine doesn't have a hole in the bottom of it so that all the reason and logic leaks out.

#18 By Cthulhu (709 Posts) at 3/29/2004 9:49:28 AM

The solution is clear. MS tells the EU to go to hell and pulls out all Windows support in Europe and then also immediately declares all Windows licenses nullified in Europe since it's no longer supported.

The EU can all switch to Linux or deal with the catastropic aftershocks from this dump.

Within a year they'll come crawling back to Microsoft. Linux is absolutely great--until you want to compete in a business environment using it as a desktop.

And lest we forget, the EU was designed from day one as an econimic front line against the power of the US--they didn't much like the idea of a uni-polar economic power. The term "EU" is just another way of saying "sour grapes."

#19 By tgnb (823 Posts) at 3/29/2004 3:49:42 PM

The sodablue Hall of Shame:

"No, I'm saying Linux is a piece of crap."

"Keep in mind that for Redhat to become profitable, they had to move away from the GPL and adopt a proprietary subscription/support model."

"Because Linux is K-K00l RAD333ZZZZ!"

"Linux versions are so boring, they offer no new innovations or any real features that people would care about. Just not worth upgrading to."

"Granted, my main issue with Linux is it's old technology and not very fun to work with."

"It's funny, but actually Linux is too bloated to be used for embedded devices."

"Linux which is motivated entirely from hatred of Microsoft products"

"OSS development is cheaper... partly true, but since it's unreliable and slower you position yourself with a competitive disadvantage."

"The large problem is really that most open source zealots do not have any understanding of the computer world."

"The US should start investigating on whether Linux exists because of illegal dumping by foreign companies."

"most GPL code is of dubius quality"

"I don't have a problem with Linux but I do have a problem with the community's general lack of respect for other peoples work."

#20 By Parkker (1408 Posts) at 3/29/2004 4:35:12 PM

WHile I think tgnb is off-topic, I guess I'll just post the last 6 days worth of OSS security holes:

3/29/2004 13:42 - Red Hat: Mozilla Denial of service vulnerability
The parsing of unexpected ASN.1 constructs within S/MIME data could cause Mozilla to crash or consume large amounts of memory.

3/29/2004 12:41 - Gentoo: oftpd Denial of service vulnerability
A port command with a number above 255, even unauthenticated, can crash the oftpd server.

3/29/2004 12:39 - Gentoo: etherial Multiple buffer overflows
Explotation of these bugs may result in denial of service or remote execution of arbitrary code.

3/29/2004 12:37 - Gentoo: Courier Multiple buffer overflows
Explotation of overflows may result in execution of arbitrary code.

3/29/2004 12:36 - Gentoo: UUDeview Buffer overflow vulnerability
By decoding a MIME archive with excessively long strings for various parameters, it is possible to crash UUDeview, or cause it to execute arbitrary code.

3/29/2004 12:32 - Red Hat: squid ACL escape vulnerability
If a Squid configuration uses Access Control Lists (ACLs), a remote attacker could cause allowed access to crafted, prohibited URLs.

3/29/2004 12:28 - FreeBSD: kernel Input validation error
Flaw with IPv6 validation may result in memory locations being accessed without proper validation.

3/29/2004 12:25 - Debian: pam-pgsql Unchecked input vulnerability
An attacker could exploit this bug to insert SQL statements.

3/29/2004 12:24 - SCO Group: mc Stack overflow vulnerability
Resolves bug which allows remote attackers to execute arbitrary code during symlink conversion.

3/29/2004 12:23 - SCO Group: mutt Buffer overflow vulnerability
Buffer overflow allows remote attackers to cause a denial of service and possibly execute arbitrary code.

3/26/2004 11:31 - Debian: emil Multiple vulnerabilities
Ulf Harnhammar discovered a number of vulnerabilities in emil, both various buffer overflows and format string bugs.

3/26/2004 11:29 - Gentoo: apache 2.x Multiple vulnerabilities
Vulnerabilities include code execution and denial of service.

3/24/2004 18:42 - Debian: ecartis Multiple vulnerabilities
New version fixes multiple buffer overflows plus password disclosure vulnerability.

3/23/2004 11:45 - Fedora: OpenSSL Denial of service vulnerabilities
This update includes OpenSSL packages to fix two security issues affecting OpenSSL 0.9.7a which allow denial of service attacks.

3/23/2004 11:42 - Red Hat: httpd Denial of service vulnerability
Updated httpd packages are now available that fix a denial of service vulnerability in mod_ssl

#21 By ClosedStandards (689 Posts) at 3/29/2004 4:38:53 PM

"It's banned in my company due to it's security flaws. "

"Which browser do you use which has absolutely no security flaws? "

Soda is making all kinds of great sense again! That's why I never leave my house. Until someone invents a car that is 100% safe with absolutely no chance of getting in an accident, I'm staying put. Those so-called "safer" cars like Saabs and Volvos are no safer than a go-cart when you look at it in the correct, 100% or nothing approach.

#22 By MrRoper (321 Posts) at 3/29/2004 5:59:45 PM

if those are the OSS flaws it scares me to think about what Microsoft isn't telling me

#23 By Parkker (1408 Posts) at 3/29/2004 7:02:55 PM

"if those are the OSS flaws it scares me to think about what Microsoft isn't telling me "

I like to think of Linux Security sites as a smorgasbord of vulnerabilities that would allow any hacker to break into 95% or more of OSS boxes. Every week there is 10-15 more vulnerabilities to exploit. Since most normal people wouldn't have a clue how to upgrade the kernel, let alone apply all the patches necessary, its nice to know that there is a recipe guide of hacker code available.

#24 By -X- (210 Posts) at 3/29/2004 7:46:31 PM

I think I'm normal and I can upgrade a kernel. Lots of folks are normal and can upgrade a kernel in a snap. Actually, I don't know anyone using OSS that can't upgrade a kernel. Slackware, one of the most nuts and bolts of any OS. Kernel upgrade, really hard, right.. probably 5-min and done. Probably easier if I used swaret, but I'm one of those old timers. Just face it, you're some little Windows guy that doesn't know what you are talking about.

#25 By chris_kabuki (1466 Posts) at 3/29/2004 8:00:48 PM

#18 "The solution is clear. MS tells the EU to go to hell and pulls out all Windows support in Europe and then also immediately declares all Windows licenses nullified in Europe since it's no longer supported."

If MS do that, the US economy will be in a bigger shit than it already is, think again Einstein!

"And lest we forget, the EU was designed from day one as an econimic front line against the power of the US--they didn't much like the idea of a uni-polar economic power. The term "EU" is just another way of saying "sour grapes.""

How dare someone else want to have some form of control! How dare the rest of the world no insist on relying on the US for everything! How dare the rest of the world demand independence! Get a grip on reality would you! Do you think the US would be responding any differently if situations were reversed?

#22 You don't have to worry... really... MS puts out security patches as fast, if not faster, than anyone else... they said so themselves! It's not as if they'd lie to you. And the only bugs they have are the ones they publish, they would never ever be so sneaky as to release a patch which changes things you don't know about! So just relax and enjoy the trustworthy secure environment that MS has provided for you.

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